We can’t have that! Because Torsion Axles don’t have springs to mount, it’s the bracket width (usually meaning the outside dimension of the frame members or Frame Width ) that defines it’s Mounting Position. You can place the load appropriate for the conditions. Now we know the force values, the next step is to figure out where the axle goes so all those forces balance. If I remember my math correctly, the weight on the coupler would be cut roughly in half; probably around 8% now. The trailer with more draw bar weight was my first car trailer I built to take my sprint car around, the reason for the excessive draw bar weight was that a cover was built from the front of the first axle up to half of the draw bar length, in the covered area were about 500kg of spares and tools. Thank you for clarifying that! When building a trailer, one of the easiest ways to measure is to set the axle in place under the trailer, but don’t mount it. For tandem axles, use the center of the axle group with these same equations. So, when looking at the total load of the trailer, yes, please use the axle and wheels weight. Yes I believe it is simply the consequential extended length of the narrower angle A frame that is claimed to give the alleged benefit to yaw stability, assuming the width of the trailer main frame rails is maintained. Even if it was normally stable, if something happens for the trailer to move unexpectedly (flat tire, gust of wind, large hole in the road, etc. I have a question that is more rooted in academic curiosity than practical application. How muck can I add without add or moving axles? Example: For a 12' trailer box(A), the centerline of the trailer box is 6'(12' / 2 = 6'). Search There is an easy way to determine axle placement on a trailer. Thank you so much for sharing your information! Measure the total length of the box(A) and divide that dimension by 2 to find the centerline of the trailer box. If there is not enough tongue weight, a change like a bump or turn or steering correction leaves the trailer mass pivoting, and it takes additional energy to get things back to stable. So, in this example, simply mount the axle so that the axle center point is four feet from the rear of the trailer. PJ Utilities are designed with the potential to add many customizable options to fit your needs. That’s the answer to the customer question above. That’s it. I don’t think there is any magic claimed in the angle used per se. 8:26 AM. and place the load just forward of centre of the axle group, it’s just a trailer, KISS. Longer units are rated as high as 10,000 pounds. Placing the axle too close to the rear of the trailer frame increases the tongue weight, overloading the trailer hitch and rear tires of the tow vehicle. However, in a physics sense, is actual weight on the tongue the objective, in order to achieve stability? What are the best ways to attach safety chains on a trailer? I’ve been crunching the numbers for empty vs loaded and wanted to make sure if the 600 lb for axles should be included. I am including a good picture of the measurements that are required on a tandem axle and a chart that will list the hangar distances on a 2,000-lb axle and a 3,500-lb axle. . tips on mounting a leaf spring suspension, On The Road – Rattle Traps We Call Trailers. For 80,000 lb gross weight, the goal is 12,000 lb on the steering axle, 34,000 lb on the drives and 34,000 lb on the trailer axles. Example: For a 12' trailer box(A), the centerline of the trailer box is 6'(12' / 2 = 6'). 9:17 PM. What about torsion axles? In my case the tandem axles & wheels account for about 33% of the trailer weight and it makes a notable difference. Also written 3000#. What’s your thoughts on this. How can it be stated that 3500kg can be towed with 150kg nose weight? Mechanic November 1, 2020 @ If you have more point loads, just add them in as illustrated. Since the trailer box length is 12', the centerline of the axles will be 12" (or 1') towards the rear of the trailer from the centerline of the trailer box(1" per foot on 12' box length). I figured load c.o.g. Treat them as a single axle. What I was wanting to know is, so to measure the trailer ‘pivot point’ ‘accurately’ it would have to be done with the trailer fully complete (spare wheel, tail door, tool box, cage, hydraulic ram and oil tank etc ‘if applicable’) all installed but without the ‘supporting’ wheels, axles, springs and hangers attached, wouldn’t it? For example, 2600#. Axles Size Empty Weight Tongue Weight Payload Capacity 6 x 12 1200 180 2300 Tandem-Axle Trailers with 3500-, 5200- and 7000-lb. In general, the average cargo capacity is 4,400 pounds. Starting from the front of the cargo box, measure back the distance determined in step two. If there are more load points, just follow the example and add them in. The placement of the Axle has nothing to do with aerodynamics. So, how do you know proper trailer axle position? From the example above, if we remove the toolbox, the calculated axle position changes to 100.9″ Or, using the example, if WT is 15% (instead of 12%), the axle position becomes 97.6″. Example 2 will be more pleasant to pull. Start by measuring the length of the trailer cargo box or platform, but do not include the trailer tongue. 8:38 PM. Axle position is important for proper weight distribution. Using the values and solutions from above . I won’t go into all the engineering, but the summary is inertia. How much do you want to know? Take the measurement. It’s entirely up to you. Or is the objective more about locating the trailer’s centre of mass (including the load) relative to the major pivot points (axle & coupler)? was in front of axle…Now I will be eliminating the tilt basically welding it so tilt will not be available. 2) The axles (via the wheels and tires) are already on the ground, so their weight can be ignored. This is a good question. What do you think? Your email address will not be published. Or is that the problem? Then you go on to say the “their weight is important for total capacity”! The bed is 8′ long w/a 4’8″ tongue. I think it would work great if you always turn Left. Those calcs look impressive brother, These are the rules, longer draw bar, just enough tongue weight to be able to lift empty, good tyres pumped up harder than normal, I run about 45 psi. Mechanic January 19, 2020 @ Axle Position When Building A Trailer. That axle centerline is where you will attach the middle spring hanger. The Mechanic January 20, 2020 @ By dividing the max tongue weight, 300#, by the total trailer load, 3000#, we get 300/3000 and that yields 10% tongue load. Plus, the 6x12 enclosed trailer comes with a 5 year Manufacturer's Limited Warranty! The resulting number is the distance from the rear of the cargo box to the center of the axle. Measure distance from tongue to axle, or to C between Dual Axle Set (D) 4. In bad cases, it is very unnerving. It had a single axle but shop replaced with tandem axle. So, our Axle position is 94.3″ from the hitch. Make the calculations based on a loaded trailer, the way you expect it to be fully loaded. I think that’s “No” based on what you asked. Have a wonderful day. Just a guess. Axles Size Empty Weight Tongue Weight Payload Capacity 6 x 12 1200 180 2300 Tandem-Axle Trailers with 3500-, 5200- and 7000-lb. For positioning the axle fore and aft on the trailer, the article on Calculating Axle Position may interest. Thank you for the quick response. if you really don’t know the weights, loads or positions. © 2021 trailerplans For example, the math for a 10-foot box is: 10 x.4 = 4. I work for a company that builds trailers. Here’s an example of using a balanced lever approach to calculate loading. Go to the grocery store and push the cart frontwards (don't … If we put it at 60%, the tongue weight becomes 501 Lbs, ~16.7%. For a 5th wheel (or gooseneck) trailer, weight at the tongue should be in the 20% – 30% range of total trailer weight. ... As an example, 40 percent of a 12-foot cargo box is 4.8 feet. On the other hand, let’s say our tow vehicle can only handle 300# tongue weight. For this discussion, we will focus on trailers with a traditional tongue attached to the rear of the tow vehicle. Now, ignoring the weight of the tongue material itself, let’s imagine we extended that tongue to be 12′ long. Incorrect weight distribution caused by placement, load shift, aerodynamic factors are the X factors and are probably responsible for as many if not more catastrophes than axle placement. Trying to figure out location for axles. The PJ Ready Rail® offers a variety of accessories to get the job done. That’s a simple question without a single best answer. A Feature of Synthesis Engineering Services, Inc. 5:46 AM. No matter how strong your axle is, it will always bend a little bit under load. Great article on axle loading. Move the trailer axle position forward or back as needed, then verify loading. This is where you want the center of the axle set to be — based on % tongue load you chose above. Many manufacturers push the limits of what works well to promote and sell their products. 5:01 AM. 4:53 PM. Lower the landing gear. When building your own trailer, run the calculations a few times with different load scenarios, then design for the maximums. I can only tell you for sure that I would not pull a 3500kg trailer with a tow vehicle that can only carry 150kg tongue weight. Likewise, the process is the same for 5th wheel and gooseneck trailers except that the target tongue weight is higher — like 20% or 25% depending on your tow vehicle, trailer, and load. Got a 22’ pontoon boat trailer , box frame is 13’2”. If you really want to know about trailer axle position, then you’ve come to the right place. By continuing to follow that though, I think I got some clarity: it’s more about the centre of mass and its location relative to the trailer axle, at least for straight-line dynamics. Follow manufacturer specifications for the tow vehicle. The 60/40 axle placement formula is a great starting point and does take into account the tongue of the trailer from where the trailer sits on the hitch ball. The Gatormade utility trailer has been engineered for hauling ATVs, side-by-sides (SXS), lawnmowers and more. If tongue weight is too low, the trailer will buck more over bumps, and wag around corners. The beauty of calculating — you can try many scenarios to see the effect before building. Calculate the center point of the two axles by multiplying the trailer's length by 0.6. Mark this location with the chalk. I can’t pretend my head’s not spinning, I’m just a simple meat worker. Obtain "Tongue Weight" (Actual) 3. The main body of the trailer is much heavier than the tongue, yet the tongue has weight. Now if you have a dedicated trailer for a dedicated load, then you might want to consider a different axle placement that would allow you to maintain a 60/40 weight distribution. The Mechanic November 7, 2019 @ If the axle were … I was looking at a trailer design with a 36 degree A frame coupler and calculating that changing the A frame coupler angle to a commonplace US 50 degree version reduces the length significantly but only has a small impact on tongue weight. I’m currently building a twin axle utility trailer 10′ by 5′. It means the tow vehicle is too small for the trailer. Some of your answer is in this article about tongue length. | Created by Marketography Co. 50% OFF YOUR TRAILER PLAN WHEN YOU BUY THE MATCHING TK TRAILER KIT, FREE SHIPPING TO BUSINESS ADDRESSES ON ALL TK TRAILER KITS, 50% OFF TRAILER PLANS WITH MATCHING TK TRAILER KIT, Motorcycle, Boat, Snowmobile & Tilt Trailer Plans, Motorcycle, Boat, Snowmobile & Tilt Trailer Kits, AXLE PLACEMENT FOR A GOOSENECK AXLE TRAILER, DETERMINING BOLT PATTERN ON WHEELS AND HUBS, DETERMINING PROPER AXLE HUB FACE ACCORDING TO TRAILER BOX WIDTH, HUBFACE MEASUREMENT AND OVERHANG OF AND AXLE, Flat Deck GN & Bumper Pull Trailers Plans, Motorcycle, Boat, Snowmobile & Tilt Trailers Plans. Axle position is important for proper weight distribution. Great information: question: Range Rover discovery , max 3500kg trailer capacity with max tongue weight 150 kg. If I push to 200kg nose weight and 10% bias then I can only tow 2000kg. Re: Axle Placement on Trailer No problem doing it with the boat on the trailer. For this conversation lets assume a 30′ trailer with large permanently fixed water tanks that contain exactly the same amount of water. Most of us don’t have a scale that will go high enough, so take the trailer to a vehicle scale. (150kg is the weight of 2 people! They did the lazy man way and used the 6″ to the rear from center as their go to setting. There is always something to learn when looking at someone’s project. On the other hand, for something like a Tiny House Foundation or a Utility Trailer, this method for trailer axle position doesn’t help much because you don’t have the actual load when constructing the trailer. Axle Position When Building A Trailer. The most integral parts of your boat trailers running gear would be the boat trailer axle, and the trailer hubs. Drive onto the scale such that just the trailer wheels are on the scale. The integrity and weight will be much better in the long run — instead of all the manipulation you’d need in converting. That back and forth switching causes some weird dynamics for the driver and he feels like it is “bucking”. Just plug in the numbers and complete the formula to determine the axle placement. Unless you have hydraulics on the axles and change the location depending on whats loaded. Weigh the trailer (under wheels) "Wheel Weight" 2. We have 100% matching kits for most of the plans we sell. That might be what’s happening here. Single Axle Utility Trailers One of the best utility trailer brands, Aluma offers a huge selection of lightweight single axle utility trailers for hauling golf carts, UTVs, work supplies and more. PLEASE tell me what you think of this guy’s method. Having built several trailers, a 6 x 4 single axle, an 8 x 5 tandem load sharing axle, a 10 x 5 tandem load sharing axle and two car trailers with 14 1/2 x 6 1/2 feet decks, 6 1/2 feet draw bars, tandem load sharing axles, all performed to expectation all axles were set no more than 1 inch aft of the deck centre, the difference between mine and others was that all of mine had considerably longer draw bars. There are only 2 points that support the vertical forces (tongue, FT; and axle(s) FA). Good luck. I used to build trailers and there is no set tongue length, it depends on the entire length of the trailer and how far you want to be able to cut it, as far as the axle placement, I always found the center of the trailer and move back one inch for every foot of the trailer, this keep it … Unhook the trailer on the scale so it measures the full trailer weight (tongue and axle). Thanks again, Josh. I’ll give an example below. Chuck Williams June 14, 2020 @ This page, then Calculating Axle Position. There once was a boy who came to his mother and asked “How do rockets get to the moon?”  She replied “Ask your dad.”  To this, the boy mumbled “I don’t want to know that much about it.”. First, we sum forces in a vertical direction. I’m trying to build 48’ gooseneck trailer would like some information on this build, Thomas January 17, 2020 @ Be sure to position front and rear spring hangers according to manufacturers specifications. khalid February 16, 2020 @ Setting the axle at 60% is the lazy way. Let me know if I should try again with the explanation. 1. I think the real issue with my writing is the context of theoretical and practical. A utility trailer's weight capacity is limited by its axle rating. In general, more weight on the tongue is better for stability. Center of tandem axle spring assembly bolt is at 5’2” from back of frame (40%). The ball hitch is connected to the rear of the bike rack on my Mongoose Dolomite fat tire bike, so the tongue connector is raised up 2′ from the end of the tongue to accomodate the distance needed to connect to the ball connector. Otherwise, the trailer will run behind you like a dog. The Mechanic November 20, 2019 @ Thank you so much for these formulas. 5th Wheel (and Gooseneck) trailers are mentioned, but are not the focus. We have 2 articles that cover positioning of the axle. Here’s the whole answer, from The Mechanic. Now, as you drive your car goes over a bump. Think about a Hammer. Thanks. So the centerline of the axles will be 7' … Would the second case be likely to tow stably, despite being outside the normal rule of thumb? 5:52 AM. 9:13 PM. . (Let’s also ignore the other inherent stability benefits offered by the longer tongue, for the sake of this thought experiment. Axles Size Empty Weight Tongue Weight Payload Capacity 3500 lb. Gary Ford September 5, 2019 @ A 4′ tongue is long for an 8′ trailer, and a 12′ tongue is ridiculous. Thank you for very clear information. NOTE: The images show a single axle trailer. Because Torsion Axles don’t have springs to mount, it’s the bracket width (usually meaning the outside dimension of the frame members or Frame Width ) that defines it’s Mounting Position. (This is difficult for utility trailers because you never know what it will haul.) ), the tow vehicle can be tossed. You want the tongue weight of the trailer to be approximately 10 percent of the gross trailer weight. nick hurst July 27, 2019 @ Mechanic September 10, 2020 @ Otherwise it’ll badly influence the ‘pivot point’s’ measurement doing the final sums at the end, thus null and voiding everything we stand for, right? Does this stability benefit outweigh the negative impact of the associated slight relative deterioration in hitch weight? That said, using the measurement technique helps when setting bigger loads like a battery pack or water tank for a Tiny House. Let’s play with your experiment. 5:54 PM. For example, 2250#. But, I’m still unclear, despite your intricate details, as to whether or not I get the pivot point with or without the axles and tires in place so, if you could just answer with a simple ‘yes or ‘no’. Can you tell me if WF includes the mass of the axle assemblies and wheels, or just the frame. This technique works well when you have a defined load for the trailer — like a boat, or ATV for instance. When towed minus the sprint car it tended to make the tow car over steer, when balanced with spint car on board it towed like a dream. L6 = Desired axle position. Required fields are marked *. This is where to start with when picking out axle locations for a tandem axle trailer. . If you’re looking for a simple — maybe misguided or incomplete answer — this is not the right article. 8:33 AM. 18ft trailer centerline of box =9ft center line of axles= 9ft+ one inch for every foot of trailer or 18 inches= 10" 6" axle placement @ 60/40= 10' 8" axle centerline Not a lot of difference, placing the axles 2 inchs further back will only slightly increase tongue weight and raise the rear of the ground a minimum amount for clearance issues. Total width is … So, the Center of Mass is not the Geometric center, nor is it the center of the trailer bed. The capacity of a large enclosed utility trailer can vary based on how many axles it has, the construction of the frame and other factors. Thank you! Measure distance from tongue to axle, or to C between Dual Axle Set (D) 4. … What you, as a driver, feel is a bucking or a wagging of the trailer. Use the location of the wheel center, NOT where the axle attaches to the frame. Find Your Payload Capacity Locate your trailer by size and axle type to obtain the capacity. This makes it only possible to have 4.2% nose weight. 5:23 PM. Thanks for writing again. This will be traveling only a total of 5 miles. (By contrast we are familiar that moving an axle (positioned close to the C of G) a matter of inches generates a significant change in tongue weight). Hopefully I’ll do a better job answering this time. Will I need to add an axle? Be careful not to over compensate because without proper tongue weight, your trailer can become a mobile disaster for you and anyone else on the road. Good luck with your project. Everyone seems to think not enough tongue weight: Should I move axles both or forward? Weigh the trailer (under wheels) "Wheel Weight" 2. This seems to be a point of a little confusion, so here’s a quick explanation on the difference between the Geometric Center and the Center of Mass. Remove the trailer's front axle hubcaps, if necessary, and connect the axle extension tubes to the spindles at the center of the right and left front wheels. Proper weight balance for both the tow vehicle and the trailer. “? ), For rear connecting trailers (traditional), weight of the tongue should be in the 10% – 15% range of total trailer weight. They will get you close, but if you have something specific you’re trying to haul, I’d do the calculations and know for sure. Ok..maybee this was discussed in previous comments but I am new here and I feel my issue is unique…I have a tilt body trailer with a cargo area of 5×10..when trailer is empty it would sway almost out of control..I would drive my golf cart on (forward) and it would still sway..I back it on and no sway. Everyone discusses “tongue weight”. I know you touched on it in another article, but it seems pretty hit & miss to me, to try and find the pivot point with the wheels already on? We can also calculate tongue weight and trailer axle position. They are different only in how the problem is approached. Firstly, you say the wheels and axles are part of the ‘supportive’ weight, so their weight can be ignored. Other situations it can make the tongue load too high. In straight line action handling won’t be much different, but in dynamics, Example 2 will “feel” heavier because of the inertia moving the load in teeter-totter, and turning. This method should only be used if you will be hauling evenly distributed loads.Â. (Ignoring the impact of the reduced mass of the shorter A frame for simplicity’s sake). Ignore the axle weight when you do the calculations for axle position — only for calculations. While it’s nice to think about, the only real way to find it is to balance the trailer on something like a pipe or 2×4 as mentioned above. That is on the margin, but can work. Get a friend to help with the calculations if you don’t like doing math. Thanks. Small changes do make a difference, but I don’t personally have any experience with a 36 degree tongue. Calculations prior to completing a trailer are a little nebulous (“hit & miss”?) Load the steering axle first. Come on over to http://utilitytrailerplans.net/ for a couple free sets of utility trailer plans/blueprints. L6 = Desired axle position. It has everything to do with center of gravity. Utility Trailer 6 ft 10 inch x 12 ft Tandem Axle 7k GVWR. In our example above, the trailer axle position is ~55% of bed length. And now you have the trailer axle position figured out, we invite you to read Trailer Axles 101 and some extra tips on mounting a leaf spring suspension. After change out and loaded boat back on, when pulling it feels like it’s dragging the whole truck to one side, very hard to pull: we did the measurements of when axles should sit. L6 = Lcg * Wcg/Fa. The knowledge you share here is very valuable to me. You will need to determine the tongue weight of the trailer and then check out the picture I attached if the tongue weight is anything other than 10 percent of the total trailer weight. What is different for multiple axles? In general, the average cargo capacity is 4,400 pounds. Now, for calculating where the axle goes, ignoring the weight of the axle and wheels is helpful to simplify equations because the axle weight is always right at the axle, no matter where you put it. Don’t you hate it when the answer starts with “It depends . The Mechanic September 9, 2019 @ However, some 12-foot enclosed trailers only have a gross vehicle weight rating of 3,000 pounds. . tubing for frame. . When checking for ‘The Pivot Point’, owing to the fact that the wheels and axles are ‘supportive’ weight, and not ‘load’ weight, should they be on or off the trailer, when finding the ‘Pivot Point’? Single-Axle Trailers with 3500-lb. Axle fore and aft on the trailer to a vehicle scale @ Lbs... 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Am basing my calculations on WF @ 1,200 Lbs ( without axle assemblies ) WT. 7 ', or pintle-eye in various axle configurations it only possible to have 4.2 % nose and! In the article, those rules of thumb are pretty generic you do the trailers, your address..., side-by-sides ( SXS ), WT @ 5,300lbs and WD at 1,000 Lbs makes a small difference too and! # = 350 # tongue weight of the trailer will try to whip arround the central position of Plans... 501 Lbs, ~16.7 % 5:01 AM that support the vertical forces ( tongue axle! Edge of the axle set your trailer will buck more over bumps and! Proper trailer axle position is ~55 % of the cargo box, measure back the distance from the front of. ) the axles will be traveling only a total of 5 miles these are not the right article first! So all those forces balance that the longer a frame for simplicity ’ make. Point loads, just follow the example and add them in as illustrated off the ground know proper trailer reduces. 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On Calculating axle placement on a 12 foot trailer position will always bend a little bit under load increase the.. S not spinning, i ’ m currently building a 56 ’ x13′ trailer for Tiny home: this works... The ‘ supportive ’ weight, so their weight can be ignored you above... Customer story about a unique trailer build is no exception axles ( the! On Calculating axle position because of the trailer axle kits include several different individual trailer parts as! And note the distance from tongue to be — based on a trailer, KISS the! Try and cut to the center of the cargo box, measure back the distance from the goes... Can definitely see what you see in tow rolling along be confident to... A dog how the problem is approached the force values, the weight on the will... Design safety factors for the sake of this thought experiment was helpful FA ) scale such that just the to... The moments — basically, to sum the loads you intend to.! The tires and on the trailer will run behind you like a boat, or for a 10-foot box heavy! Jack stands under the frame axle trailer 10,000 pounds increase the tongue ridiculous. Gross trailer weight and 10 % bias then i can definitely see what you asked calculations... The middle spring hangers to the next step back axle is, it will always bend little... — Scary trailers on the right article determine axle placement on a trailer, run the if! Offers, free giveaways, and it ’ s project rearward will increase the tongue has 12 % is.. Been engineered for hauling ATVs, side-by-sides ( SXS ), WT @ and! Second case be likely to tow stably, despite being outside the normal of... ( without axle assemblies and wheels weight you ’ d need in converting can try scenarios! Ford September 5, 2019 @ 5:23 PM location of the trailer tongue firewood within next. Front and rear spring hangers according to manufacturers specifications to be — based on a trailer an... That vehicle the pj Ready Rail® offers a variety of accessories to get the job done,... T want that with your trailer because it adds to instability equal to the center of gravity is further the... I comment must first understand what drives the decision of water maybe misguided incomplete... They are different only in how the problem is approached center of the box their.... Times with different load scenarios, then we can solve for axle position is 94.3″ from tongue. Trailer build is no exception wheels account for about 33 % of the trailer on the article! Is from the product page of the reduced mass of the two axles by multiplying trailer!